2016大选 | 联邦议员Michael Sukkar先生专访

<- 分享“侨居澳洲”微信公众号到您的社交圈,让更多的人知道!

收藏文章 赞一个 已赞 2016-06-30 侨居澳洲






Michael Sukkar专访  

日前侨居澳洲的记者有幸邀请到了维州Deakin选区的联邦议员Michael Sukkar先生进行了一次专访。








Sukkar

Sukkar先生在2013年大选中代表自由党在Deakin选区获胜,成为该选区历史上第44位联邦议员。


在这次采访中,Sukkar先生就我们华人关心的移民问题教育问题做生意的问题,和公共交通问题做了坦诚和详细的解释。也对联邦政府州政府的政策做出了自己的解读。



记者ypi:

作为一名移民到澳大利亚的华人,我们在这个社会里是少数民族,我个人认为也相信很多人都这认为,澳洲的多元文化是这个国家强大的重要原因之一。我曾在参加工党的活动中被告知白澳政策是工党政府废除的而且工党在加强多元文化上面的政绩比自由党要好的。您能否简单阐述一下您个人和自由党在加强多元文化上的立场呢?


Sukkar先生: 

首先,我可以肯定白澳政策是自由党废除的,并非工党。实际上,如果你查看一下澳洲的移民记录,在自由党执政时期的移民人数要远远多于工党执政时期。一个很好的例子就是,工党十分依赖工会。而工会总是在宣扬中国威胁论,他们称中国移民会抢他们的饭碗。而工党对于这些从来都是默许的态度,很多时候还是支持的。我还愿意指出另外一点,那就是,在国会议员中,自由党议员中新移民后代的比例要远大于工党的比例。也即是说自由党是更鼓励和包容新移民的。而我们这么做的原因是我们充分理解而且支持那些来澳洲寻求为自己和自己下一代寻求更好的生活的新移民。我的父亲在他18岁的时候来到澳洲,不会讲英文,但是他工作勤恳,最后我们家也过上了不错的生活,我也能够获得比他年轻时更多的机遇。


让我谈谈来自中国的新移民,我认为中国的移民非常有企业家精神,非常重视家庭,同时也热衷于投资小生意。这些特质都是我们希望这个社会拥有的。同时,中国移民非常之守法,如果我们所有的移民都拥有中国移民有的品质,那么我们社会上的问题就会大大减少。所以,我们愿意鼓励移民,但是我们需要筛选那些对的人,那些对社会有益的人。我们不想把社会治理像欧洲那样,不经筛选的引入大批的难民,造成了现在社会的动荡。回归到主题,自由党执政时期的移民数量一直都比工党高,事实就是如此。工党需要把工会撇清关系,不然他们的移民政策会被工会挟制。在我的选区,就发生过工会散发反中国的材料,他们向大众制造恐慌情绪,称中国会占领澳大利亚。


最后,我想重申,我本人就是在多元文化的环境中成长起来的,我的父母就是新移民,我在自由党中的很多同僚和我的情况一样。我们绝对支持多元文化,我们尤其支持更多的中华文化来融入澳洲社会,因为中华文化和我们自由党的理念是如此的契合。


记者ypi:

便利的交通对于这个社会的重要性毋庸置疑,联邦政府认为东西连线计划比墨尔本地铁轨道计划更重要,更愿意把资金投入到前者而非维州政府竭力推进的后者。我们无法判断哪个的重要性更强。在您的首次在国会的演讲中,您曾说在支配纳税人的钱的时候,纳税人本人一般比政府更知道花在哪里更值得。所以,用在这个情况上面,您认为联邦政府会比维州政府更懂维州更需要哪个项目吗?


Sukkar先生: 

有一件事90%的维州人都会同意。那就是支付10亿澳元的违约金来拒绝东西连线计划是澳洲历届政府中最大一笔金额的浪费。东西连线计划现在其实已经可以开始动工了,被浪费的10亿澳元其实正好是这个计划的一期工程需要的全部资金。而且,东西连线计划可以比墨尔本地铁轨道计划早7年完工。维州工党政府在努力制造这样一种情况,那就是,墨尔本地铁轨道计划和东西连线只能二选一。可是对于墨尔本这样一个每年新增常住人口10万的城市,我们需要开动两个工程,而且这是必须要做的。我们需要增加道路,铁轨,巴士,所有类型的公共交通。


真相是,工党制造这种二选一的情况并且反对东西连线计划的目的是保住他们在墨尔本市周围的几个选区的席位。在这几个选区内他们受到了来自绿党的威胁,绿党不希望东西连线计划的修建,工党不想流逝自己的选民到绿党阵营,所以指出东西连线应该给墨尔本地铁轨道计划让路。我承认我们需要乘坐火车,但是很多时候我们需要开车,并且公路交通对于一些来说是无可替代的。举个例子,我们的货物从港口到超市需要货车的运输,我们的技术工人需要开车携带他们的作业工具,你能想象他们扛着所有的工具乘坐火车去工地吗?同时,工党也隐瞒了一个事实那就是,40%的公共交通发生在公路上在公交车中,而不是轨道上。如果我们的公交车都堵在路上,那么谁还会去选择这种公共交通方式呢?最后,白白浪费纳税人10亿澳元的地方政府在哪个国家都是要追责的。这让人感到愤怒。


记者ypi:

所以,您的意思是,白白浪费的10亿澳元仅仅是由于政治斗争吗?


Sukkar先生: 

对的,而且是我们纳税人在支付这笔钱。我们应该修建两个计划,他们不冲突,东西连线计划会比墨尔本地铁轨道项目早7年完工。维州工党政府所宣称的只能两选一是站不住脚的。



记者ypi:

您是十分热衷于推动小生意小公司的发展,我猜想您在推动竞争法的改革上也做出了贡献。您为什么认为小生意对我们的社会这么重要?


Sukkar先生: 

是的,我在小生意社团中十分活跃。正如我刚刚提到的,我来自一个小生意家庭,我从小就在家里的生意中帮忙,拖地,做清洁,我什么都做过。所以我对小生意有感情也愿意支持他们。是的,我参与了竞争法中第46章的修改。我们修改它是因为目前的法律并不建全,大公司可以随意欺压小企业。整个社会的经济发展只有在公平竞争的前提下才能发挥的最好。我们并不仅仅是在帮助小企业,我们是在制造更好的经济环境,到头来每个人都会收益。


举个例子,我们经常可以看到一种叫掠夺性要价的现象,简单来说就是一家大超市在一个区域开了一个分店,他们把这家店的所有商品都赔本出售来挤压这个地区别的私人运营的小超市,直到这个小超市支撑不下去而倒闭。到那个时候,这个大超市分店的产品价格会回到正常,而且或许比之前小超市的定价更高。谁来买单呢?当然是消费者。所以,向我刚刚所说的,我们不仅仅是帮助小生意,更公平的竞争有益于每一个人。在对竞争法进行修改的时候我们承担了来自大公司的很大的压力,但是我们还是认为我们有责任去帮助小生意的从业者。我刚刚提到了,我认为很多华人都是很有企业家精神的小生意从业者。我觉得我们自由党在为他们发声,工党不会为他们发生,工党只会帮助工会,而工会才不会关心小生意的死活。所以,我们来肩负这个责任。


记者ypi:

前段时间谭宝总理提出了一个很有趣的提案就是各州自订所得税税率来支付各州的公共医疗和教育开支。这个在当时引起了很大的争议,您是怎么看这个在外界看来有些激进的方案的?


Sukkar先生: 

我认为这是个很先进的理念。目前的情况是这样的,州政府总是不断的来向联邦政府要更多的钱,不管钱从哪里来,就是要钱。同时,州政府拿到钱之后又不想让联邦政府插手干预。像刚刚提到的,维州州长安德鲁斯在白白浪费了10亿澳元后又来找联邦政府说我需要另外的10亿澳元用于做别的事情。在这种情况下,谭宝说,那好,既然你们州政府也都是民选出来的政府,你们想要更多的钱,那么我就给们更多的权利,你们自己去跟选民交涉,你们来说服他们缴纳更多的税来满足你们。为什么联邦政府在帮你们收钱之后给你们花,你们又完全不让我们查收,况且我们不信任你们的理财能力。可是当谭宝宣布这个提案之后,这些州长们却说不不不,我们不要这个权利,我们只想从你这里拿钱。在明确了这个之后,谭宝说,好,你们不想提高税率当坏人,我们联邦政府也不想提高税率。既然如此,你们就不要再来向我要更多的经费。你们要学着省着点花。其实结果有点可悲,尤其是对于维州的工党政府,他们没有足够的信心来收收取税务并制定相应的预算。我想说,如果他们没能力做这个事情的话,我们要州议会又有什么用呢?


记者ypi:

您认为自由党政府对于削减公共教育的拨款会导致公立学校和私立学校两极分化吗?


Sukkar先生: 

自由党政府没有削减公共教育经费。在过去的四年中,自由党执政期间,联邦政府对于公共教育的开支增加了22%。在去年一年中就增加了9%。工党在大选中一直称我们削减了教育开支,教育需要更多的投入。可是,钱从那里来呢?靠借么?还是增长税率?公共教育的经费一直在增加,如果州政府需要更多的话,我在上个问题里已经谈到了。实际上,在过去四年中,联邦政府的投入增长了22%而州政府对于教育的投入减少了7%。


我想告诉华人朋友,这或许是你第一次经历大选,或许是第十次,每次大选前,工党都会宣称自由党在削减教育经费,过去的50年中每一次大选都是如此,如果真如他们所说,现在我们估计都没有公立学校了,经费早就被削减完了。这还是出于政治上的原因,我刚刚提供的数据是最好的反驳。同时,我还想说,当然,对于教育和医疗的投资当然多多益善,如果我们有无限的钱的话。在收入一定的情况下,工党的做法是不停的借钱来支付他们的选前承诺。而自由党却致力于收支平衡,有多少就承诺多少。我觉得华人应该很理解这个观点。你不能不断的透支未来的钱,因为总有一天你需要还钱。这就是问题所在,工党不断的借钱,自由党就必须来偿还这些债务。



记者ypi:

在您第一次的国会演讲中,您说您坚信家庭是这个社会最重要的组成单元。我作为华人很认同这个想法,因为在我们中华文化里,和谐的家庭对于一个和谐的社会来讲意义重大。对于建设一个更和谐的社区,能讲讲您的想法吗?


Sukkar先生: 

用这个问题结束这次采访我觉得非常好,其实这是为什么我和我的选区内华人社团关系如此亲密的原因之一。因为我认为我从小生活的家庭氛围和华人家庭十分相近,我们都尊重长辈,都认为教导子女是身为父母的责任,都认为在家庭遇到困难的时候大家要共渡难关。我在做国会议员的过程中接触了很多有困难的人,他们中很多人的共同点就是,他们没有成长在一个和睦的家庭环境中。这很不幸,一般来讲,在一个快乐,健康和积极的家庭氛围中成长起来的孩子在长大后更容易成为一个快乐,健康和积极的公民。


我们想要创造更多的有和谐氛围的家庭,这有很多途径。其中之一就是努力发展经济。我们想让每个适龄公民都有一份工作,他们通过自己的劳动获得酬劳来养家,来提供给他们的孩子好的教育,也给这些孩子树立好的榜样,让他们知道如果自己也能努力工作,不违纪违法,自己能过上更好的生活。这些都是建立在强劲的经济基础上的。如果家庭中父母没有工作,人们会丧失信念,那么和谐的家庭氛围就无从而来。所以,大力发展经济是我自由党一直致力在做的。除此之外,我个人的婚姻观念十分传统,在这个社会上每个人都有就此事有不同的看法。但是一般来讲,在我接触到的华人家庭中,我认为华人的想法和我是一致的,我们都主张传统的婚姻。但同时,我十分欣赏华人对于不同观念的包容程度。这是为什么我主张我们需要吸引更多的华人移民。华人认同传统的婚姻观念但是对不同的观念却不做评价和批评。这也是我对此事的处理态度,我虽然坚定的支持传统婚姻,但是只要你是好的公民无论你在此事上观念如何,我们都应该欢迎你。但是我们不要忘了,家庭是这个社会最重要的组成部分,也是国家强盛的关键所在。国家强大的基础不在政府,在于在这个国家的公民,快乐的和有成就的公民。所以,我们要大力发展经济,我们希望人们都能就业,都有能力让子女受到好的教育,只有这样每个家庭才能有更好的未来,这个国家也才会有更好的未来。


(下附采访原稿)

Transcript


ypi: Being a Chinese Australian, as a minority in the society, I personally believe that and I think lots of people agree that Australian multiculturalism makes this country stronger. I was told from a Labor’s MP that the White Australia policy was abolished by Labor. Could you tell us the Liberal party’s policy and your thoughts on encouraging multiculturalism in this country and in your electrode division?


Mr. Sukkar: First of all, Liberal party abolished the White Australia policy. In fact, if you look at the pattern of the migration in this country, the Liberal party has always presided much higher immigration than the Labor party. One of the really good example is that the Labor party which are very relying on the unions are running huge scale campaigns saying that the Chinese are coming in and taking all of our jobs. The unions are always the same but the Labor party never challenges the unions on anything, they always campaign with the unions on the exact points. I also want to point out that, look at the Labor’s parliamentary party, we have far people who are sons and daughters of the migrants than the Labor party. One reason is that we completely understand that and want to support people coming to Australia to improve their lives and to improve the lives of their children. My father came to this country in his 18 years old. He did not speak English but he worked hard and created a better life for our family, ultimately I had all the opportunities that he did not have. If we look at the context of Chinese migrants, the Chinese are probably the most entrepreneurial, very family-orientated, and very invested in small businesses. They are, by in large, the values we want to encourage through out our society. The other thing about Chinese is very law-abiding, and if all of our migrants had the same characteristics of the Chinese we would have a lot less issues in our country. So we want to encourage migration, of course we do, but we want to encourage them from the right people, people who are going to enrich our society. We do not want end up with the situation like Europe with these dislocations, with the society are not happy. The migration in Liberal party is always higher. Those facts just do not lie. The sooner the Labor party can remove themselves from being aligned with the unions the better. Because the unions were saying when we signed the Chinese-Australia free trade, I had unions in my electrode division handing out ani-Chinese materials, trying to scare people that China was going to take over Australia. I am product of multicultural society and so are many people in Liberal party. So we absolutely support multiculturalism and we most emphatically support a multicultural society from cultures like the Chinese culture which is so compactible with our values.


ypi: Transportation is a very important sectorFederal government thinks east-west link project is more important than the Melbourne metro rail project. It is really hard to determine which one is more urgent and more effective regarding to ease the traffic congestion. However, in your first speech, you said government can rarely spend your money as wisely as you can. Many people think Victorian government knows better than the Federal government regarding to this issue, what is your preference and why?


Mr. Sukkar: There is one thing that 90% of Victorians agree on. Spending 1 billion dollars to cancel the contract was the biggest waste of money in any level of government in Australia ever. The east-west link could be being constructed at this moment, that 1 billion dollars would basically be the whole contribution that they would required for the stage one of the east-west link. So the east-west link had not commenced, as it should of, would be completed some 7 years before the Melbourne metro. So the Labor party is trying to create this impression that is either Melbourne metro or east-west link. In a city that is growing 100,000 people a year, is should be both and must be both. We need to improve roads, rail, buses, and all forms of public transport. You must improve everything.

The truth is that the Labor party made this decision to try to firm up some city seats where the Greens are active. Because the Greens do not like the east-west link, the Greens do not like, to be honest, any big infrastructure projects. They want everything just to stay as it is. So who suffers the most? Our people suffer the most. Yes, we use trains, I use trains but sometimes I need to use my car. And the other reason why it should not be a choice between Melbourne metro and east-west link, is for some people they have to use the road. Our trucks, our goods from the port, our tradesmen, our builders, they cannot go to a building site with all of their equipment and take them on the train. They got to be in your cars. You cannot get the goods from the port to our supermarkets, you cannot do it by trains, it should be tracks. We need both. The other thing the Labor party did not acknowledge is that when you improve roads, you do improve public transport. Reason being 40% of all public transport journeys occur on the road, in a bus. If our buses are stuck in traffic, less people are going to use them. So to waste a billion dollars, in some parts of the world, there will be public officials who go on trials for wasting that amount of money. That is outrageous.


ypi: So you are saying the waste of one billion dollars is just because of politics, right?


Mr. Sukkar: Yes. But we pay the price. The taxpayers pay, all for politics. We should have both. The east-west link should have been finished 7 years before the Metro. So this idea that is one or the other is false.


ypi: You are an active advocator for small business and you must have contributed much on changing the completion law in favor of small businesses. Why do you think the small businesses are so important to this society? 


Mr. Sukkar: I am very active with small business community. As I mentioned to you at the start, I came from a small business family, so I was one of those, like all kids whose parents run small business, I worked in the small business, so I was swiping the floor in the café, I was cleaning. That is what small business families do. They all worked together. So I want to support them. I was very heavily involved in the section 46 changes to the competition law. The reason being, at the moment the law is just inadequate, large companies just can very easily bully smaller competitors. One of the principles of our economy is that the economy only runs its optimum when there is fair competition. It is not that we doing a favor to small businesses, it benefits everybody. If we have fair competition, ultimately it benefits everyone.


I give you an example, there are lots of what we called predatory pricing, basically could be a supermarket moves in, they have got stores all around the country. They run this store at a loss and they push all the prices down until the smaller competitor next-door dies. And at the minute this one dies, the prices shot up. So who pays the price, the consumers need to pay. So we are not just doing it small businesses, we are doing it for the consumers, it benefits the whole society. So it was a big change, there was lots of resistance, we had a lot of pressure from big corporations who did not want this. But ultimately, we feel we own obligations for small business people. And as I said to you earlier, the Chinese community well-known for being very entrepreneurial small businesses people, family businesses. We feel we are their voice, because the Labor party are the voice for the unions. And the unions do not care about small businesses. We care about small businesses. And one of the reasons, we care so much about them is that so many of us have come out of small businesses ourselves. We know how hard it is. You know people who have not been in a business do not appreciate that you pay the rent first, you pay the stuff second, you pay the electricity third, and the last person who gets paid is the owner. People do not understand this, the unions do not care, they only care about themselves. So we are the only one standing for small businesses. And we take that obligation very seriously.


ypi: What are you opinions about the proposal that was brought by the Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull that each state should levy their own income tax to pay their own education and public health sectors?


Mr. Sukkar: I thought it was a novel approach. The background ultimately here is the state government keep saying we need more money, and they said we do not care about where do you get them from, we just want more money. Yet, they do not want give up any control over how it spends. So it was a very frustrating situation when Daniel Andrews goes and wastes a billion dollars to cancel a contract and says but I want another one billion dollars to spend on this or that. So Malcolm Turnbull basically gives them a challenge. He said ok you are an elected government, if you want extra money we will give you some power but you gotta go out and make the argument to convince people why they should pay more tax. Why should we be the one to go out and try to raise more money from taxpayers not for our spending but for your spending? And we do not trust them with this spending. They waste to much money. Now it was very interesting that they came back and said no no no we do not want that power, we just want you to find the money. So the prime minister said that is really good. You do not want to raise the taxes, we do not want to raise taxes. So now we agree that neither of us want to raise taxes. We have to stop having the states just coming to us saying more money. They have to spend their money more wisely. That is the key point. So I support the prime minister in that but we got a clear position now. That state do not want the power to tax so that is fine it is off the table. We are not going to propose this again but it is a bit sad when our state government do not have enough, particularly this Labor government in Victoria, do not have enough confidence they would be able to effectively manage that. Why do we need to have the state parliament if they cannot do that. So it is a lot about state government mind set.


ypi: Do you think the cut on education funding and polarizing the gap between the public school and the private school?

Mr. Sukkar: There has been no cut to education funding, not cut at all. So in the last four years, Federal spending on education, so the grants we gave to the states, increased by 22%. Last year it increased by 9%. Now the Labor party keep saying the cut, they are running a big campaign they want more money. And we are saying to them, where is the money coming from? Borrow more? Tax more? So, this is the ultimate point. Education spending has been continuingly increased. And if the state governments want more money, I refer you to the earlier question. We have increased by 22% and the other statistics which is interesting, in that same 4 years period, the state government has reduced their contribution by 7%. So there has been no education cut.


I want to say this, every Chinese Australian, this might be their first election or they might have seen 10 elections. Every single election in Australia, the Labor party say the Liberal party is cutting education. Every election, they say the same thing. Regardless of how much more it is. I mean they have been talking it for last 50 years, we have been cutting education. Our schools should be disappeared by now, if we kept cutting education like they claimed we have, there would be no school left. So again, this is political argument. The statistics is very clear. A broader point I want to make is, you could always spend more money in health and education, if we have unlimited amount of money. There is always something good you can spend on. But the one thing that differential us with Labor party is that the Labor party willing to borrow, borrow, borrow to pay for promises. But we want to run a balance budget. And there is where I get back to our Chinese community, if any community understands this is the Chinese. You cannot spend more than you earn. You cannot keep putting things on the credit card because at the end of the day someone has to pay. And this is the problem, Labor everything goes on the credit card, and we have to come in and pay for it.

ypi: In you first speech you said you believe that family will always be the most important unit in our society. I think Chinese community feel much related to this value, because we believe that harmonious families are essential to the harmony of the society. Could you tell as a little bit more your plan to create a harmonious society in your electrode division?


Mr. Sukkar: There has been no cut to education funding, not cut at all. So in the last four years, Federal spending on education, so the grants we gave to the states, increased by 22%. Last year it increased by 9%. Now the Labor party keep saying the cut, they are running a big campaign they want more money. And we are saying to them, where is the money coming from? Borrow more? Tax more? So, this is the ultimate point. Education spending has been continuingly increased. And if the state governments want more money, I refer you to the earlier question. We have increased by 22% and the other statistics which is interesting, in that same 4 years period, the state government has reduced their contribution by 7%. So there has been no education cut.


I want to say this, every Chinese Australian, this might be their first election or they might have seen 10 elections. Every single election in Australia, the Labor party say the Liberal party is cutting education. Every election, they say the same thing. Regardless of how much more it is. I mean they have been talking it for last 50 years, we have been cutting education. Our schools should be disappeared by now, if we kept cutting education like they claimed we have, there would be no school left. So again, this is political argument. The statistics is very clear. A broader point I want to make is, you could always spend more money in health and education, if we have unlimited amount of money. There is always something good you can spend on. But the one thing that differential us with Labor party is that the Labor party willing to borrow, borrow, borrow to pay for promises. But we want to run a balance budget. And there is where I get back to our Chinese community, if any community understands this is the Chinese. You cannot spend more than you earn. You cannot keep putting things on the credit card because at the end of the day someone has to pay. And this is the problem, Labor everything goes on the credit card, and we have to come in and pay for it. 




作者:ypi

校对:Yuki



请关注新的澳洲资讯平台


(长按二维码,自动识别关注)



侨居澳洲公共号平台
澳洲热门新闻 | 政府政策更新 | 社区消息 | 分享

长按二维码关注我们


广告、商业合作请微信zhenyan1999

意见反馈请微信ssi2014

投稿请微信:cgao2013

微信号:immisyd




点击展开全文